Cinecolor or Two Strip Technicolor?

[J. A. Boschen]

Just out of curiosity, which early color process do you prefer on early cartoons from 1930--1936: Cinecolor or Two-Strip Technicolor? I personally prefer Cinecolor.Here are some examples for those of you need to remember

[Brundledan]

I never liked two-strip Technicolor. It always looked way too damned red. And green.

I wonder why that was....

-Dan

[Cartman]

DOH! I was thinking of three-strip technicolor when I cast my vote for this poll. I guess I'd prefer Cinecolor.

[JDWeil]

Cinecolor was the best of the two-strip processes. When handled just right, it could rival Three-strip Technicolor. And it was cheap too, just 47c o foot more than B&W film while 3-strip Technicolor cost three times the amount. Cinecolor used the colors red and blue, while 2-strip Technicolor used the colors red and green and required special cameras. Cinecolor's hues were always fully saturated while two-strip's hues were muted.

[Duck Dodgers]

Cinecolor, no doubt! And you used pretty good examples, respectively from the AAN " The Calico Dragon" ( 1935) and " Poor Cinderella"

[Ray Pointer]

The one thing you are all missing is the impression in projection. Cinecolor was a two color, two emulsion process. The colors were applied on both sides of the film. Film consists of a base and an emulsion, with is the photo-sensitive chemical content that produces the image. This is the side that is focused on in projection. With Cinecolor the application of the color produced two emulsions. This meant that one of the colors would be out of focus. While not as serious for short films, the effect was too tiring on the eyes beyond ten minutes.

What you are seeing in eamples such as POOR CINDERELLA and the Iwerks COMIC COLOR cartoons is the result of being printed onto modern single color emulsion film stocks. This and the abilities of electronic and digital technology to accept and improve these images contributes to the attractiveness of these color systems which actually had a limited range of color reproduction.

The MUTT AND JEFF color remakes of the early 30s used a Cinecolor Process called Kromocolor. This was an application of red and blue, and sometimes red and green, as in the color version of SLICK SLEUTHS. The nicest example of the Cinecolor (Kromocolor) Process was in the color remake of THE GLOBE TROTTERS.

[Duck Dodgers]

Originally Posted by Ray Pointer

The one thing you are all missing is the impression in projection. Cinecolor was a two color, two emulsion process. The colors were applied on both sides of the film. Film consists of a base and an emulsion, with is the photo-sensitive chemical content that produces the image. This is the side that is focused on in projection. With Cinecolor the application of the color produced two emulsions. This meant that one of the colors would be out of focus. While not as serious for short films, but the effect was too triing on the eyes beyond ten minutes.

What you are seeing in eamples such as POOR CINDERELLA and the Iwerks COMIC COLOR cartoons is the result of being printed onto modern single color emulsion film stocks. This and the abilities of electronic and digital technology to accept and improve these images contributes to the attractiveness of these color systems which actually had a limited range of color reproduction.

The MUTT AND JEFF color remakes of the early 30s used a Cinecolor Process called Kromocolor. This was an application of red and blue, and sometimes red and green, as in the color version of SLICK SLEUTHS. The nicest example of the Cinecolor (Kromocolor) Process was in the color remake of THE GLOBE TROTTERS.

Really interesting! Thanks, Ray!
However, one tiny detail: the two-strip cartoon is an MGM Happy Harmonies cartoon " The Calico Dragon", not an Iwerks work.

[JDWeil]

Originally Posted by Ray Pointer

The one thing you are all missing is the impression in projection. Cinecolor was a two color, two emulsion process. The colors were applied on both sides of the film. Film consists of a base and an emulsion, with is the photo-sensitive chemical content that produces the image. This is the side that is focused on in projection. With Cinecolor the application of the color produced two emulsions. This meant that one of the colors would be out of focus. While not as serious for short films, but the effect was too triing on the eyes beyond ten minutes.

What you are seeing in eamples such as POOR CINDERELLA and the Iwerks COMIC COLOR cartoons is the result of being printed onto modern single color emulsion film stocks. This and the abilities of electronic and digital technology to accept and improve these images contributes to the attractiveness of these color systems which actually had a limited range of color reproduction.

The MUTT AND JEFF color remakes of the early 30s used a Cinecolor Process called Kromocolor. This was an application of red and blue, and sometimes red and green, as in the color version of SLICK SLEUTHS. The nicest example of the Cinecolor (Kromocolor) Process was in the color remake of THE GLOBE TROTTERS.

Two-strip Technicolor also had both sides of the film covered with an emulsion so whatever applied to Cinecolor in projection also applied to 2-strip Technicolor as well. The only advantage that Technicolor had over Cinecolor was the imbibition process in developing that the film when the dyes were applied. Technicolor pronts had clear soundtracks while the soundtracks in Cinecolor were a bit off due to the color dyes in the film emulsion.

[Ray Pointer]

Originally Posted by Duck Dodgers

one tiny detail: the two-strip cartoon is an MGM Happy Harmonies cartoon " The Calico Dragon", not an Iwerks work.

One major detail: I didn't make any reference to "The Calico Dragon." I am aware that it was a two-color Tech cartoon.

[Ray Pointer]

Originally Posted by JDWeil

Two-strip Technicolor also had both sides of the film covered with an emulsion so whatever applied to Cinecolor in projection also applied to 2-strip Technicolor as well. The only advantage that Technicolor had over Cinecolor was the imbibition process in developing that the film when the dyes were applied. Technicolor pronts had clesar soundtracks while the soundtracks in Cinecolor were a bit off due to the color dyes in the film emulsion.

Yes, there usually was a blue tint to the soundtrack, which seemed to affect some of the MUTT AND JEFF cartoons, but not others. The fact that Technicolor was a dye process added into a black and white emulsion adds to reason why the tracks were better, because they remaited the black and white gray range necessary for the soundtracks, especially for those prints using the RCA Variable Area system, which required more contrast for the sound wave. The track seemed unaffected in the COMIC COLOR and POOR CINDERELLA cartoons which used a Western Electric Variable Density type track that retained fidelity in spite of the dye application. Some Variable Area tracks tended to be affected by the degree of the dye which added to distortions and ground noise which happened on some MUTT AND JEFF prints
I dealt with a year ago.